Awww its Uncle Iroh and Zuko all over again.

@Alanasolo
 
Dammit, I often confuse terms.

@Twi_Clown  
It’s not a leak, it’s an officially released book.

@neo4812
 
Excuse me sir.  
New leaks indicate that she is going to return to the pony world, so there’s a chance that our lady can speak with Celestia.
 
Now, if you excuse me sir, I will gently go out to contain my orgasm. Have a nice day sir.

@Alanasolo  
wait really?! there gonna do that in forgotten friendship? and here i thought it was just gonna be restricted in the “human” world

@neo4812  
Or a certain EQG special coming out in February ;)

i would love for this to happen in the show or another EQG movie

I love Celestia X Sunset reunions, especially when they’re Avatar inspired.

@CronoM  
You need to stop treating your interpretations as fact. It’s all subjective.

@Cirrus Light  
Well said!

@CronoM  
Your argument still rests on her having made bad decisions recently, and

neither of which I’m convinced of.
 

conjecture. We don’t know the full story, but what’s implied is that Sunset was at fault for being rebellious and power-hungry and ran away, not that Celestia was. One of the things our system of law actually gets right sometimes is putting the blame for the action on the individual who took the action: not on a close associate who’s intervention, it is impossible to know if it could’ve stopped them.
 

 
Sunset didn’t exist until EQG. Either we’re stuck without stuff like this being added, or we can accept it and not get too upset at resulting discontinuity.
 
But, I am a fan of avoiding meta in fiction, so my thought is that Celestia’s over a thousand years old: over that time, she’s probably accumulated more dead students and regrets - through no fault of her own, and sometimes through faults of her own - than she has the emotional ability to review over often.
 
Imagine having formed a 20-year relationship with some-odd 50 ponies, and out living them all, save the latest two, the former having rebelled against you.
 
If she’s going to take time to grieve and reflect, she’s going to need a lot of time to go over everything. If she reflects in one student, she’ll inevitably reflect on many. So it’s not too unbelievable about not mentioning Sunset.
 
All that, and perhaps some “too soon,” as well.
 

sure, but once again, is Celestia to blame for that? Twilight accepted being her student and wants to learn and grow: that’s what Celestia is doing for her, letting her learn and grow. It’s not easy, but it’s worth it if she handles it well.
 

 

@Cirrus Light  

 
So your plan was respond to crankiness with even more crankiness? Great plan :/
 
 
Back to a serious discussion, 3 years ago Celestia wasn’t pulling the kind of shit she did in MMC, Crystal Empire, or Twilight’s Kingdom.
 
Does her current actions dis-value all her leadership over the last 1000 years? Of course not. Does that mean she is currently as wise as she once was? Not at all.
 
I’m not putting all the blame on Celestia for her personal life, it takes two to tango, but 2.5/3 she’s created tyrants or emotionally lost people. Only by growing out of her shadow did they succeed to grow just as wise or wiser.
 
As for Twilight, I wouldn’t exactly call Twilight ‘fine’, she’s been going through several various cases of depression, identity crisis and self morality questioning this season as the situation Celestia put Twilight into has become more real.
 
Sunset shared a deep, motherly bond with Celestia but that special treatment and Celestia’s lack of understanding of friendship turned their relationship sour until Sunset left. Instead of going after her, she replaced Sunset’s role with Twilight, never mentioned Sunset again, and kept Twilight at an emotional distance while allowing Twilight admiration to be at unhealthy levels, so that Twilight hangs on her very word more then friends or family.
 
That doesn’t sound like the actions of Celestia at her most healthiest mentally. Does it to you?
 
Would I live in Celestia’s kingdom in the past? Sure. Would I live there during this phase of ‘Celestia trying to make Twilight the hero as much as possible.’ No, definitely not. At the very least, I’d live far away from the capital or ponyville. Assuming Tirek never defeated Maud during his rampage, maybe the rock farm is nice this time of year.

@Cirrus Light  
Correction: “if that’s an achievement you can easily brush aside”

@CronoM  
Good grief. Someone’s cranky. Nice first paragraph.
 
First off, try reading your own words.

 
Do I seriously need to explain why running a successful nation as a supreme, lone dictator for a thousand years, and ending up with a positive, happy, friendly, friendship-loving, free society without hunger or war is a notable accomplishment? If you seriously think that’s an achievement - creating what may be the best society to top any Human civilization ever, despite living amidst so many evil dark magic forces and monsters everywhere, then you’re not even reasonable enough to talk to.
 
Scarred, burned, hyper-dependent - the only way you can see Celestia as responsible for that in those three cases is if you’re trying to fulfill a vendetta. Even a good parent can’t force their children to be good, and I’d say Twilight has turned out really well.
 
You can go live in that Griffonstone dump or whatever other place - I’d be perfectly happy in Equestria under Celestia.

@C Money  
I wonder that too.
 
Though it could be just Mrs. Faust’s characterization, mixed with the current staff’s characterization.

@Cirrus Light  
You are using years-old defense arguments that no longer have any bearing on Celestia’s character. You are intentionally overinflating the stuff she’s done politically has an immortal ruler that everyone already acknowledges while INTENTIONALLY ignoring how in every familial matter connected to Celestia has been left them scarred, burned, or hyper-dependent to her every word. Luna, Sunset and Twilight.
 
That’s not even mentioning how immoral she became once the idea of Twilight succeeding her became an obsession worth risking lives for unnecessarily. And not the 6 heroes, just Twilight, which has put Equestria in far more danger then necessary even by the standards of fictional ‘wise’ rulers who have done similar.
 
No one doubts that Celestia has wisdom, but her wisdom has permanent and severe moral blindspots that go unnoticed due to her immortality, her reputation, and her power. Before S3, they were manageable, but obsession can degrade one’s wisdom even further, which it did. She’s not a tyrant, but she IS a inwardly broken person.
 
Currently, Sunset is far wiser then Celstia or Twilight, and most of the fandom believes that.
 
To make things worse, Celestia refuses to open up to Twilight or even Luna. In the comics, she actually talks with the issues behind most of her questionable decisions with Spike and eventually her sister, and Celestia grows wiser, but that Celestia doesn’t exist in the show.

@CronoM
 
I thought I already wrote this reply… I guess it failed to post or something…
 
Anyways, I think you’re overblowing Celestia’s imperfections. I don’t quite see what you’re saying as the case. I think she’s done an excellent job running a nation for a thousand plus years and dealing with all she’s dealt with. I’d take her monarchy or diarchy over any human system of government.
 
She’s very competent, canonically. I mean, just look at what she’s done with Equestria in the past thousand years by herself.
 
I, for one, hail our pony overlord :p  

@Cirrus Light  
True, but that doesn’t make Celestia wise at all regarding friendship either. She keeps on failing people over and over again with the people she loves, and is never willing to keep an open-mind about things.
 
Celestia has conviction, but his wisdom is incredibly lacking. Considering how many times she’s risked the entire kingdom with lessons for Twilight she doesn’t even follow through with, especially when she’s old enough to know better, seems to imply that Sunset is far wiser a person then Celestia.
 
Dropping the philosophy for a bit, is there any reason why we should find Celestia credible or moral? She isn’t Jesus, she isn’t even Aslan, she just an immortal with a great deal of issues regarding friends and family. Issues she has no awareness of and endangers the people that trust her.

@CronoM  
Misquoted? I read the book. The context was describing how Christ, who was prefect and never did anything wrong, can empathize with those who have done wrong. The point of those metaphors was that some people object: “Christ is a poor teacher because he doesn’t know what it’s like to fail, thus can’t empathize.” His response was: “On the contrary, because Christ never failed, he’s the only one qualified to teach.”
 
I would also add to his argument - he may have even said this but I’ve forgotten since I already knew it since it’s basically Mormon theology - that He does, in fact, empathize, because He took on Himself all the pain we can experience in The Atonement in Gathsemene.
 
But that’s all theology, as much as moral philosophy.
 
In general, I suppose it certainly gets a lot more fuzzy when the “teacher” is imperfect, but hasn’t failed as much.
 
I think it goes like this: those who have changed for the better like Sunset have to have done huge things to get themselves to be good, thus will be greatly committed.
 
People who have never had to change like that don’t have to have that resolve and understanding - but that doesn’t mean they don’t.
 
Sunset has metaphorically fallen into a deep and perilous pit, and climbed out. Only someone with great strength can survive and climb out of that pit. It doesn’t mean that only those who’ve fallen in and climbed out are strong, though. Just that those who have, are.

@CronoM  
So much philosophy, my brain is hurting… :S

@Cirrus Light  
While I like the C.S. Lewis quote, it seems to be horrendously misquoted  
and also has no meaning towards Celestia and Sunset’s situation. Let’s reword your phrases to better match the situation…
 
“Who knows the strength of the wind more, the man who stands strong against it until it stops, or the man who falls to it, falling on the ground, then gets up only to face stronger winds then the first man ever faced?
 
Who is better qualified to teach someone handwriting? The person who used to have big mistakes in their handwriting, and thus can empathize better, or the one who had really good handwriting since forever, while the first one clawed and scraped to make their skill even better then second guy, and thus, is infinitely more capable to show you how to write properly because they know the process.
 
Thing is, Celestia IS imperfect, but she is in a position where she doesn’t have the peers or the position as goddess to actually be held accountable for her weaknesses. That doesn’t make her evil, but all the holes in her moral fiber will develop to define her without it ever being addressed. She failed Luna as a sister a thousand years ago, and she failed again with Sunset as a mentor/surrogate mother, but no one was there to tell her the hows and whys of what she did wrong. Can you imagine what that would do to a mortal mind after literally a thousand years?
 
,,,
 
C.S. Lewis was only partially correct. While most humans have a default of good, there are methods of nurture to make ‘evil’ the only truth they know.
 
C.S. Lewis created those quotes to describe people with moral fiber from the beginning but developed willingness to do horrible, horrible things due to lack of willpower. People who will sacrifice and follow people blindly at the cost of what they know to be right. To compare to Twilight, even though Crystal Empire’s lesson was to ignore certain ‘rules’ for the sake of others, she did the same thing and kept her friends out of the loop when Celestia ordered her to. Those who fell to weak-willed habits that compromise their morals, which was the main point of C.S. Lewis’ quotes.
 
Sunset’s issues derive from a mixture of nature and warped nurture. Unlike Twlight, Sunset was never encouraged to have friends even when she was a teen, meanwhile being overwhelmed with promises of importance and ambition until Celestia turned her into thinking she was the next Alexander the Great. However, deep down, Sunset kept a moral line for herself, and when she became a demon, what she saw on the other side horrified her so much she ‘stood up after falling to the wind”, and decided to press further.
 
Sunset has the nature of an incredibly strong willed, open minded individual, and once the curtains of her nurture fell apart, both when she admired Celestia then fought with Celestia.. Twilight has an open mind, but her will is often too weak to even grasp that learning curve, she is too dependent on Celestia’s praise then anything else. Celestia is a very strong willed individual but she is so close-minded due to her morality being partially distorted from the mistakes she made over a thousand years ago.

“I just wish I could stay longer, but-”  
“Sunset,… you’re home now. You can stay as long as you want. This castle has plenty of room, and I’m sure Princess Twilight’s does too if you’d feel more comfortable there.”  
“No, no, I know that. But I still have my friends from Canterlot High to think about. I was the one who brought magic to their world, and they need somepony from Equestria to help keep it under control.”  
“That’s quite noble of you, Sunset Shimmer, but from what Twilight has told me your friends are more than capable of taking care of themselves from n-”  
(FOOMP! a pair of portals open a short distance from Sunset and Celestia)  
(on the other side, the human Twilight Sparkle is glaring at a console)  
“Oh, come on! I’ve done everything short of bend spacetime with my bare hands, and I still can’t get the two ends to connect? Maybe I need to set up a relay in Equestria to act as a common point of reference.”  
(Twilight looks at the portals and sees the two ponies)  
“…Uh-oh.”  
(she quickly slaps a button on the console)  
(FWIP! the portals shrink to nothing)  
“On second thought,…”  
“Yeah, I should–I should go.”

@CronoM  
C.S. Lewis wrote a bit about this:  
Who knows the strength of the wind more, the man who stands strong against it until it stops, or the man who falls to it, and falling on the ground, doesn’t feel it continue to push him?
 
Who is better qualified to teach someone handwriting? The person who makes mistakes in their handwriting, and thus can “empathize better,” or the one who has flawless handwriting, and can, if you let them, take your hand and show you how to write properly?
 
While experience is a great teacher, it’s only necessary because we’re imperfect. I’m not entirely sold on the idea that falling is necessary for reaching greater heights - only necessary in many of our cases because of our flaws.
 

 
@Soarinjack  
Well, Sunset’s clearly, sincerely changed. So what are you going to do, punish her for something she already wishes had never happened? I fail to see how inflicting harm or pain on her would undo the wrongs of the past - two wrongs don’t make a right.
 
Our system of law doesn’t recognize this because it’s run by very flawed human beings who are often unable to discern sincere repentance from acting, and in order to dissuade crime and criminals who might otherwise think; “I’ll just apologize and it’ll all be good.”
 
With Celestia, while perhaps not perfect, she’s a good enough judge that I’d trust her to make moral calls like this one.

@Yet_One_More_Idiot  
One could also argue that Harmony only granted Celestia and Luna a Tree with only 6 elements they were worthy of. A source of power that revolved around the element of power and merit, Magic.
 
Several years after Discord’s defeat, Celestia and Luna’s sisterly love for each other falls apart until it becomes far too late.
 
I think you get what I’m saying. If neither Celestia or Luna were ever worthy of the 7th element, it would of never presented itself to them.
 
I also considered whether Sunset’s cutie mark could also be Celestia’s cutie mark on the tree, but I doubt it. The two sister’s cutie marks were only enscribed on the tree as sidenotes, most likely so that they could wield them many moons ago. They are not actual representations of the elements, just their users back then.
 
My interpretation of their cutie marks is that someone who only follows the light(Celestia) can never truly understand or empathize with those who’ve fallen down a different path. Understanding both good and evil(Sunset) is sometimes considered the ultimate source of wisdom.

@Background Pony #D883  
Ah yeah sorry, I thought you meant Sunset. xD