G2g

Until you can prove that any one objective standard is true, I.e. that the one correct religion is out-there, we must rely on what we can directly interact with.
 
If I get charged by human laws, I can appeal to a judge that I can see. If I get charged by divine laws, where is my accuser, who can I appeal to?
 
Reason must prevail.

@Morfean  
Nope. Played Portal 2?

Dammit  
human

@Morfean  
nope never heard of it

Rational -human. Standards.  
Sorry, oximoron there.

@byakhee_pony  
Anyone ever play Muramasa; The Demon Blade for the wii? My god, that game is beautiful. It’s like the entire game is scenery porn.

But my point is that Rational Human Standards have to come from somewhere unchanging, because humans are fickle and inconsistent. We are almost universally a brutish people.

im cracking my foot.
 
too much politics, we need something random

Capitalism: Some prosper, others suffer.
 
Communism: Everybody suffers equally except for those in charge.

Objective by rational human standards. Laws based at the human level, not by some divine standard. We cannot prove any one faith right, therefore their laws cannot be enforced in good faith. we must rely on ourselves.

everyone please keep in mind that in all governments except for communisem, there will be people better off then others, this leads to conflict, the better off person will often get what they want because the are more capable,but communisem stiffles freedom, which then causes riots againt the government it self, and no matfer what, someone is always going to be unhappy

But Objectivity claims that there is some true thing which no religion is actually capable of: which in itself is actually a religion. Every religion claims that it is objectively right, and the others mustaken. It’s extremely arrogant to try and stand apart by saying “This is objective,” especially without a well explained basis.
 
Tl;dr  
By claiming no religion is objective, you are actually claiming that there is no objective fact, because any belief system is inherently a religion.”

Well, religion is kind of interesting, so I’ll stay for this.
 
(This is from an atheist perspective, mind you)
 
Religion in general seems pretty harmless if it only affects the individual and the small groups that go into it willingly. It’s only when it goes to state level power that I start getting nervous. Even the most “benevolent” religions will have some corruption to them if unrestrained, but that could be for anything with a bunch of power, honestly. Religion just helps and is much easier to spread to people who don’t really have it that well (unless you were born into it).

@byakhee_pony  
Thanks.

I hold freedom of Religion in the highest regard. I fight for it tooth and nail, but the fact of the matter is dominance of one faith isn’t freedom of religion. When one is in power the others suffer.

Religion is more like a necessary evil (it isn’t one, but just for the sake of analogy): it’s unpleasant, unsightly, and nobody likes to talk about it, but both it, and talking sbout it are absolutely necessary.

@Battle GT  
Don’t worry, it’s a respectful and intelligent discussion about religion and government.

Dear Princess Celestia,
 
Today, I and three others had a civil debate about politics over the internet.  

@HamburgerTime  
nice one,

That doesn’t mean we open the flood gates Heresy. Every attempt must be made to ensure that bias is mitigated and that objectivity is at least partially preserved. Failure to do so leads to the faith-based clusterfuck that is the US political landscape.

@Morfean  
just saying
 
@Zincy  
there ks nothing wrong with that, you make decisions with the informarion you have

@Morfean  
Religion is like a penis. It’s okay to have one, it’s even okay to be proud of it. But DON’T go waving it around in public, and DEFINITELY don’t shove it down my kid’s throat.

The thing is, humans are religious. Any kind of government is going to be made up of religious people, so their biases will effect lawmaking. You literally cannot have a truly secular state, because even atheists aren’t truly “secular.” Atheism, is itself a collection of beliefs.