And here I thought Pinkie was gonna own the crazy faces this episode, but no Fluttershy owns it

Im so glad this comment chain died. A full year of peace and quiet.

@Prof.NightJack  
When was the last time i did that?

@Prof.NightJack  

 
I’m going to add this to my bookmark of conversations I like to be able to quote offhand on derpibooru, thank you. I’m sure it will frequently come in handy.

@Ihhh  
Well, fair enough then.
 
Let’s drop it and move on.

@Ciaran  
I don’t know him. He just replied to a comment of mine.
 
I keep saying that I don’t mind distorted expressions. And I already described the issues with how this is drawn.

@Ihhh  
Oh! I didn’t know you know Jim personally. Good for you! I would love to hear what Jim said about this when you talked with him about it, if that’s not betraying a trust?
 
What did he say when you asked him about the show staff’s lack of “understanding fundamentals”?
 
And, Yes - people draw this. This is all being done by people. Computers help with lots of the frames in between, but at some point some person had to draw this stuff.
 
However, I don’t see how “this is being drawn by people” negates anything I said. So I’m going to assume that what I said about assets is something you think is completely unworthy of considering.
 
Fine - throw assets out.
 
So, in the absence of “this is in Flash”, and in the absence of “assets” and “how flash works”, please explain what “fundamentals” you feel are being “not understood”.
 
For example, you keep referring to anatomy, but you aren’t saying what part of the anatomy is being broken. Is this about anatomy?
 
Based on the images you say are “good”, is it that you feel the characters should have a “believable skeleton” or something like that?
 
Or is it that you just don’t like cartoony expressions?

@Ciaran  
The problem with your assertion regarding the show’s use of flash, Jim Miller himself has told me that many of those facial expressions are drawn manually, and I have pointed out on several occasions that I think this show has had many well drawn facial expressions, such as >>1159260 and >>1122511, so that is not an excuse. And as for that image you linked to, that is actually drawn worse than these.

@Ihhh  
Sorry, I didn’t see any questions that didn’t seem rhetorical or which were not somehow covered by my reply to you. I am not trying to ignore any of your questions, I am trying to understand why you feel this particular set of frames is particularly bad or an example of “not understanding the fundamentals”.
 
Maybe I don’t understand WHICH fundamentals you are referring to.
 

 
That is in fact what it is. The entire model is just a series of shapes superimposed on each other.
 
In something like a Chuck Jones cartoon, they can work the jaw lines around the mouth because each frame is being drawn from the previous image - the lines that make up the outline of the body can move however they want them to. So when you look at Yosemite Sam his “jaw line” always includes his mouth, even if his mouth is larger than his head.
 
In Flash, you have the head object which is behind and the mouth object floating on top of it - redrawing the outline of the head to match the mouth takes time which is money, so the challenge is to see how far you can stretch the mouth part of the expression without breaking the overall appearance and cohesion of the character. That mouth part becomes another asset. If time and money are unlimited, you could create a new asset that includes the outline of the jaw, but that quickly results in assets that are very difficult to re-use on other characters or on other scenes.
 
Obviously, for you, this sequence goes to far. For me it doesn’t go far enough.
 
However, there’s other examples where you seemed to like what to me appears to be the same effect and very similar assets on other characters.
 
For example this frame:
 

 
Can you describe why you feel this sequence with Fluttershy is bad, while this frame with Rainbow Dash is not bad?
 

 
Bringing up IDW outside of the forums is not against the rules, but there are forum threads specifically created for people to talk about the comics, and to post examples from the comics and talk about what they think about the art or the stories to their hearts content. Posting individual frames out of the comics as separate image uploads, where people say the same things over and over and over about their personal loathing for the comics is … growing tiresome. It’s be nice if all of that could be moved to the forums. Not so much for containment, but perhaps some things could be said once, and then they wouldn’t have to be said so many times.

@Ciaran  
You did not answer my questions, and you are not paying attention. I USED HIM AS AN EXAMPLE, he is not the primary topic. I didn’t know it was against the rules to bring up IDW outside of the forums.

@Ihhh  
There is a time and a place for complaining about IDW artists
 
The comments on this image are not that place.

@Ciaran  
When did I say he drew these? Again, I used him and his comics as an example of poor drawings that almost no one defends. Did I not make that clear when I said “It’s safe to say that jay fosgitt’s drawings convey the story of his comics well, but that doesn’t make them good drawings.”

@Ihhh  
Jay Fosgitt did not draw these. These are images from the show. The IMDB link I posted has the cast list for his episode, showing the Jay Fosgitt was not involved in any way with this episode.
 
So why are you here, on this image, from this episode, complaining about someone who didn’t work on this episode?
 
Are you talking about this image, specifically? Or are you just here to complain about someone and something completely unrelated to this image?

@Ciaran  
No. I don’t know why I have to keep explaining this, but for some reason people don’t seem to get it. the problem is not cartoonish distortion, ren and stimpy and looney tunes do that very well, the problem is that these are poorly drawn while ren and stimpy and loony tunes are well drawn, and the reason is that the latter two display an understanding of anatomy, while this doesn’t. I pointed to Jay Fosgitt as an example of poor drawings that few people defend, and I could have sworn that would be obvious. What does imdb have to do with it?

@Ihhh  
Then is it safe to say you are criticizing a cartoon for looking like a cartoon?
 
Also - I don’t see Jay Fosquitt in the IMDB cast list for this episode. What is it that you know that the rest of us are missing?

@Ciaran  
I was not talking about conveying the script. Conveying the script is not the only important thing. It’s safe to say that jay fosgitt’s drawings convey the story of his comics well, but that doesn’t make them good drawings.

@Ciaran  
He’s just going to repeat the same reason for why it’s bad, ignoring when you point out a problem with his argument and say that wasn’t what his argument was about (even when it was the very thing he was talking about), and then act like he can’t understand you at some point, so that he can in the end say how he was right when you get tired of proving him wrong and stop.

@Ihhh  
Ok, so let’s break down this scene. Here’s 11 frames including the ones you feel have “no fundamentals”.
 
!heekingcat.com/crew/ciaran/dropbox/scene_breakdown.png!
 
So - you’re the director - you’re either Denny Lu or Tim Stuby or Jim Miller, and you know more about storyboards than Packford and you know things about expressing emotion in cartoons that spin Mombourquette’s head, on top of which you have more years in cartooning and cartoon expressions than Park, Tang, and Virdee combined. In brief: you are the new Chuck Jones of how cartoon expressions should work.
 
At what point do you feel the character is not conveying the script?
 
In which frame do you see the “fundamentals of cartooning” being ignored?
 
Or do you see the show reaching deep, DEEP, into the Chuck Jones bag of “don’t fail by not going too far enough”?

@Ciaran  
Why did you post that image?
 
As for your question, facial anatomy is being ignored. Fluttershy’s mouth keeps falling off of her head and often goes under her muzzle when it shouldn’t. It’s as if her muzzle doesn’t exist and her mouth is a flat object placed onto her head.

@Ihhh  

 
What “fundamentals” are you saying are not “understood” in this sequence?
 

 
You’ve been complaining about this all over the site - let’s make this the hill we do this on, ok?
 
I’m sincere - what specific “drawing fundamentals” are misunderstood in this sequence? Feel free to quote McCloud and Jones, and be assured I’ll try to respond in a way as thoughtful and considered as your reply to me.

@Deon Miller  
Nol, where the hell did you get that idea? I just want drawings that understand the fundamentals, and I know it’s possible because I have seen plenty of good drawings from the show.
 
@Prof.NightJack  
No.

@Ihhh  
So, Ren and Stimpy style emulation is what you’re going for?

@Ihhh  
Oh give it a rest.

@Background Pony #1336  
True, but they’re not very well drawn either.

@DragonBoi471
 
Fluttershy’s facial expressions aren’t even that grotesque.