Holy Celestia, why did this site log out itself at the most appropriate moment when I decided to answer, and posted a comment as an anon? It was still my comment.

@marinus18
Just a little bit, not as they expected, hahahah. All this resulted in very interesting things. This country is a little less predictable, for various reasons, than is usually expected. And a joke and a sin, my friend, as we say.

@Nightmare_Night_
Ìndeed. The Americans wanted to make Russia open for American exploitation. They had done it a decade ago in Chile. However the project didn’t exactly go as they had hoped.

@marinus18
Oh, yes, many thanks to the American comrades who guided us on the path of the free market, lol. The problem is also that our wonderful liberals from the government, under the leadership of drunkard Yeltsin, decided to privatize state property like factories into the ownership of the people by issuing vouchers, but due to the terrible situation in the country, a small number of wealthy people received most of the industry and enterprises. We add here the wild banditry of the 90s, when our police could not do much and as a result we get an example of how the market was solved, and many Soviet technological enterprises were closed and we became a damn resource base for years. A free liberal economy in all its glory. The Russian economic miracle did not happen, heh. I’m not saying that the Soviet economy and political system were perfect, but to change it in this way…

Well, actually a lot of what happened afterwards still originates in the 90s. But now we can watch funny video clips on YouTube with Boris Nikolaevich. Such is the legacy, one way or another.

@Nightmare_Night_
Yeah, the American advisors specifically said to rush the process through because they wanted to destroy the public sector before the public had time to react to it.

@marinus18
Russia

@Nightmare_Night_
What country are you from?

@marinus18
Yes, uncontrolled thoughtless privatization is terrible, I know it firsthand.

@Nightmare_Night_
Italy is facing demographic collapse and Spain has always been very politically unstable as it never fully recovered from the Franco dictatorship. Poland resisted the temptation of neo-liberal shock therapy and kept most of it’s communist state ownership within the first few years and then privatized them one by one which meant that even though it faced hardship it didn’t face the complete economic collapse that many other communist countries did. In addition it actually kept a level of pragmatism and privatized the things better run under private ownership but didn’t privatize everything just out of capitalist dogma.
Because of this Poland has one of the better mixed economies of Europe compared to Germany especially who went way overboard with pritivizing sections of society that were just very ill suited to it.

@marinus18
Yes, i have heard something about it, it sounds interesting, for example, not Spain or Italy, but Poland. Thanks for the answer)

@Nightmare_Night_
With Brexit though Poland is increasingly taking over the UK’s place in the big 3 of Europe.

@Nightmare_Night_
I’m Dutch.
And Britain is kind of the youngest child. The one who always wants to kind of do their own thing and often doesn’t want to play with the rest.

@marinus18
And what about UK? Are you from Europe? I’m just curious.

@Nightmare_Night_
Germany usually is like the older brother in Europe, trying to keep everyone else in line and realistic while France is more so the middle child. Wanting to prove itself and feel important.

I am touched by the expression on the face of Germany, which looks towards a confident and gambling France, as well as UK, which looks cautiously towards Germany. A little cute and funny.

@BrellaUmber
I think Europe should try to become more politically pro-active and actually try to play China and the US off against each other. President Biden is trying to take a lot of the trade so I think to counter that Europe should actively seek closer relationships with China and make it clear they will only stop if Biden stops. The same way if China tries to meddle in EU politics again the EU should throw it’s weight behind the US attempts to economically isolate China.
Europe needs to show that it’s no longer the US’ lackey and that if America wants Europe’s support they wil have to respect them as an equal.
I also think Europe should try to remove the US from the war in Ukraine as much as possible. Europe can handle Russia on it’s own and it started because Ukraine wanted to potentially join the EU so it’s an EU problem.

I am however doubtful the EU is capable of such bold and focused geo-political manouvering.

@BrellaUmber
Many like to look towards the Roman Empire for the precedent of the EU but it really is the Catholic Church. For one the Roman empire was not based around Europe but around the Mediterranean. Most of the core of modern Europe they didn’t even control and most of their most productive and key areas were in the middle-east or North-Africa. The Catholic Church really is what created Europe as an entity in it’s opposition to Islam.

(Sorry if I got carried away. I have been completely uninterested in politics and social politics until about half a year ago and it now hit me kind of all at once.)

@BrellaUmber
Though I admit I am very pro-EU and there are many problems with it. Including it’s weak military, insistence on constant economic self-sabotage with the sanctions and the whole rail liberalization is a terrible idea.
Europe also has cultural problems such as hyper-individualism and many schools have such weak discipline that they struggle to even function. There is also a bad tendency to segregate immigrants rather than assimilate them.

A reason I’m very pro-EU is that I’m Dutch and the Netherlands often likes to pride itself as the birthplace of the EU. The reason the capital of the EU is in Brussels is because the EU is based on the Benelux organisation between the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg. The Netherlands also played a key role in the European iron/steel union between France and Germany by acting as the main mediator. Some actually wanted to base the capitol of the EU in The Hague but the Netherlands was deemed too biased and too much of a player in their own right. Brussels was chosen largely because Belgium is too weak to influence the EU by itself so it is very unlikely to abuse it’s position.
But a lot of the EU is based on Dutch values of trade and cooperation (Often called Polder politics) and the Netherlands for most of it’s history was split in two between the Protestant cities and the Catholic countryside. Compromise and acceptance was always needed. Certain EU entities, most famously the game ratings board PEGI are based in the Netherlands and us the Dutch developed systems.

I do think the EU should try to stimulate more European cartoons and movies as well as we are very culturally dominated by the US.

@BrellaUmber
A big part though is history. European culture as a whole was formed by an extranational entity: The Catholic church. The EU is in large part a recreation of that same entity. I do hope the current remnants of the Catholic church will stay out of it though as they would only alienate the remaining protestants of Europe and while the EU is following the precedent of the Catholic Church it needs to create a new identity. But I do think it could take over some of it’s traditions to acknowledge the historical precedent.

A big part of what is driving EU integration now is also megacorps. A lot of corporations have become so large and powerful that they can intimidate or just bribe smaller nations. The EU very often is the force to oppose megacorps and protect consumers and workers. It has done that against Microsoft, Apple and recently Tesla.

A lot of Europe is also been forcefully subjugated by the USSR and the western ones have a bruised ego from being under the thumb of the US. Many prefer a supernational organization of their own creation. Americans are not aware of it themselves but they have greatly radicalized and culturally Europe has been drifting in a different direction for a long time. It’s an important reason for Brexit as well as Britain had gone in the same direction as the US and had become more and more alienated by the policies of the EU.

I myself also would like to become less attached to the US and focus more on social democracy, regulated economies and trying to undo some of the damage of hyper-individualism. That we have more social responsibility and are willing to forgive each other. In the long term Brexit could have been a good thing as the fate of the U.K. has convinced many of the merits of the EU and the policies of the U.K. were excessively libertarians’ for Europe.

@marinus18
Right, through culture perception we always like united better than individual.
An united Europe also accord with China’s interest.
And yeah, it would be difficult. I almost couldn’t imagine how different nations, langages united as one country.
The reunification cost us years of civil war, more years of negotitaion and cooperation, finally we stand here, as one important part of multipolar world.
For Europe it’s a total different way. If Europe success, I think that would be a progress to all the mankind XD.

@BrellaUmber
I have heard that in China there is a favorable view of the EU. As a European I feel we are mainly trying to find our identity in a post collonial, post cold war world. We no longer want to be America’s lackey but without our empires we are not sure what we are.

@BrellaUmber
The big 3 though also kind of tear Europe apart. Germany wants to make Europe even more united and focus inwards with an emphasis on economics and political stability, France wants Europe also more united but focus outwards and try to compete with China in Africa and Poland wants Europe more solely connected and focusing more on defense and national identity. You also have the rising power in the Balken due to the increased trade with China and China’s efforts to develop that region. They want to adopt all the newest technologies and embrace China while the others are weary of becoming a technocracy and want to diminish China’s influence.
Europe is kind of being split into 4 camps. French imperialism, German pacifism, Polish nationalism and Denubian development.

@marinus18
Interesting…I’d like to see a really united Europe, but how possible QAQ

I feel recently Poland is starting to take Britain’s place in the big 3 of Europe. I think we should also embrace that and Germany should focus on building up it’s air force to compliment the French navy or the Polish land army. Maybe get Siemens to help developed an indigenous drone industry and get Airbus to develop a new Eurofighter.