Uploaded by Sr Pelusa 
241x400 JPG 48 kB
Interested in advertising on Derpibooru? Click here for information!
Help fund the $15 daily operational cost of Derpibooru - support us financially!
Description
No description provided.
Help fund the $15 daily operational cost of Derpibooru - support us financially!
No description provided.
To me who decides that is the audience, mostly because they’re the ones that care about that. Specially when stories don’t really interconnect. And if not the audience, it’s the creative team, that need to keep track of it. Producers, or the IP owners, are just the people that put money into the thing and expect return. Telling the creative staff to do this or that doesn’t make them the creative heart of the story.
I have no reason to believe that The Hobbit and The Silmarillion don’t happen in the same world as The Lord of The Rings, but as far as Lord of the Rings is concerned, you don’t need to read Unfinished Tales to make sense (or more sense) of it. The other three books at least follow a logical chronological order and events from one are mentioned in the other. Specially in the case of LOTR and TH, when one is the sequel to the other.
Now, I don’t mean that MLP is bad because it doesn’t follow an actually structured story. I’m saying that canonicity isn’t even that important to the creative team. And let’s be honest… MLP doesn’t care about narrative coherence. In one episode we learn that ponies become alicorns because they deserve it and in another they are just born because an alicorn mated. Makes me wonder why aren’t alicorns born out of “normal” ponies when earth ponies can spawn unicorns and pegasi. This says nothing about the actual quality of character development (the ones that have it), but it does say about careful world building. But that is just my opinion. Most people don’t care about this.
Specially because I do enjoy MLP as much as I enjoy the SW movies AND the Rebels series, that does follow in the same spot as MLP in regard to being a series of ads, but does a better job at telling a cohesive story.
MLP being fiction doesn’t change anything.
Only the the franchise owner can decide on canonicity, the decision of what is canon or not is not fiction.
To give another example to clarify what I mean, when Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings many people believed his story to be an allegory for WWII and the One Ring being an atomic bomb. Tolkien denied and said that that interpretation was wrong. In this case Tolkien was both the IP owner and the author (nowadays this is often not the case), and his decision that the War of the Rings was not WWII is to be taken as truth. While Middle-Earth may be fiction, his decision about his franchise was not fiction.
Likewise, Hasbro’s decision is not fiction.
As for MLP not being a commercial, I once shared that sentiment. But that’s never going to happen, from its very inception the cartoon was meant to be an ad for toys, just like all the cartoons from that time period. I’ve come to accept that and don’t care anymore. As more as the “ad” is well written and has good characters, I’ll enjoy it.
On top of that, almost all big franchises have evolved into glorified commercials for merchandise. Merchandise is were the big profit lies, much bigger than the actual movie/tv show. In that light you could see the Star Wars movies are mere commercials for the merchandise and you wouldn’t be wrong. But I won’t let that hurt my enjoyment of the movies anymore.
But the form of the Earth is not open to interpretation. It’s not fiction. MLP is.
Also, I don’t care. I know of people in the writing staff for the show that say that the decision is up to the fandom. I’ll believe that they care about the story when they stop using it as a series of commercials and start telling an actual story with the episodes (which is not going happen). Or at least when the cartoon starts referencing events from the comics or movies.
well, people can not give a damn about earth being a sphere and insist on believing that it is flat, but that won’t change reality.
so, people are allowed to not give a damn about canonicity, but that won’t change what is canon and what isn’t.
As for Hasbro giving a damn about storytelling, there are examples that would suggest they do.
For instance, we know from various interviews and con panels that they go over the comic stories to make sure things allign. It is known they demanded that Rarity’s micro issue would be changed because the original story was too similar to an unaired future episode. Another example is that they asked to remove Trixie from the background in the comic where filly Twilight receives Spike from Celestia because they felt Trixie wouldn’t be there. So even tiny details like the presence of a secondary character being a figurant in the background gets scanned and considered.
While they may not care as obsessively as we fans do, I do think they do care.
And of course, their main objective is making money. They are a company after all, not a charity. But that doesn’t mean they won’t care about the story. Similarly, GRRM, for example, wouldn’t write ASOIAF/GOT if he couldn’t make money from it, but he does care plenty about the story
Actually, it’s the fandom that decides if they give a damn about any of that. Mostly because there are people that watch the cartoon, read the comics, and don’t give a damn about Equestria Girls or the books. And that is why people disagree on that. Unless we’re living in some sort of canonicity fascism and I haven’t noticed it.
I understand what you’re saying, though. Too bad you can’t convince me that Hasbro does give a damn about storytelling for me to care about what they say or don’t say.
There is no primary or secondary canon when it comes to MLP, there is only canon.
The reason why some franchises have a canon structure with primary, secondary, etc is because and only because their IP owner decided that. Star Wars, for example, it was not the fans who decided that, it was Lucas. And now that Disney is the Star Wars IP owner, they have all authority over canon and have indeed used that authority to declare the EU non-canon.
Long explanation to say, unless Hasbro (who has all canon decision power) declares there are various levels of canonicity, there is actually only one.
And since they literally say all the comics and stuff happen in between episodes, this means a) it happened, b) it was in the same universe/timeline because otherwise the words “in between” have no meaning, and a) + b) is exactly what canon means.
It doesn’t matter that parts of the text was just fancy business talk and “buy our toys” propaganda. The fact remains that he said what he said, it all happens in between episodes. Ergo canon.
Did you expect some parchment scroll with golden letters declaring “I, the legally mandated embodiment of Hasbro, hereby officially and formally declare that the creations of our externally contracted personnel - henceforth known as IDW, DHX and “the books” - are all equal in the sight of Gods and Men and shall be known as canon. Let it be known!”
Of course, it’s filled with business speech, that’s how companies communicate.
This doesn’t diminish his words though.
It took me a while to garner the patience to read this thing. Honestly, that abstract in the beginning almost kills the whole thing’s credibility to me. MLP is a series of 20 minute long ads rather than a series trying to tell a cohesive story. I have to suppress a laugh at “innovation”, and completely lost it at the point about social messages. But I’m digressing.
They talk about the expanded universe as extensions. I’m honestly not seeing an effort to classify it all as primary canon. Especially because that is not the point of the publication.
I had it linked below, but because I can’t create real links in here it doesn’t show as a link and is easily missed
here it is again:
www dot licensemag dot com/license-global/hasbro-magic-branded-play
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a statement from Hasbro saying that the books are canon. Can you give us a source?
Most stuff just won’t be brought up.
Besides the same can be said about the show, most episodes are never referenced again because MLP is mostly an episodic show and not a serial one.
And even then it’s not a case of “show don’t tell”, it WAS shown, but not everyone might have seen it. The same could be said about episodes people might have skipped.
In any case, none of that truly matters. Random fans can’t make claims about canonicity, only Hasbro can and their official statement is “it’s canon”.
I don’t know dude. With them being canon, it feels like that MLP FIM is gonna have so many “Show don’t tell” moments.
not necessarily.
missing episodes (bar a few really crucial ones) won’t affect someone’s understanding of the other episodes either.
the comics and books are written in such a way that not reading them won’t hinder understanding the show, but that doesn’t make them any less canon.
at worst you may not get a few references like when the Ponypalooza concert from the books was mentioned in the episode The Mane Attraction
But wouldn’t this be confusing for those that haven’t read the books or comics? And I don’t mean just us, I also mean children too since great chances are they’ve never read them.
“I don’t think Hasbro is considering chapter books canon to the show”
Hasbro does think they are canon and have officially stated so.
They stated that books, comics and movies all take place in between the episodes, and that makes them 100% canon.
Here’s the link if you want to read it for yourself: www dot licensemag dot com/license-global/hasbro-magic-branded-play
Therefore, Cadance was an Earth Pony.
There’s a lot of smokescreen and lies being spouted by haters, but the undeniable fact remains that Hasbro has stated them to be canon and thus they are.
Ok. I love the princesses in general, and I love Celestia. Also, I hate the books. I think they are weak even for younger children. Unimaginative, mediocre, like something you write with minimum effort so you get paid and can get on with your life. The problem is that they are official material. Just like the comics themselves, that I’m not very fond of since Reflections and the “wild west one”. So unless the show contradicts them, what they say goes, regardless of us liking it or not. With that, Luna and Celestia were born alicorns (Luna’s book) and Cadance saved that village, got transported to the same place Twilight went and turned into an alicorn. I think it’s pathetic when compared with what Twilight had to go through, but my opinion isn’t important. The point still remains that she was born a pegasus and then earned her horn by reversing Prismia’s (or something like that) spell.(Twilight’s book)
I’d agree with you about Celestia and Luna if all of their enemies didn’t come back and then wiped the floor with them (mostly Celestia, because Luna vanishes whenever she’s going to look bad) requiring Twilight or Cadance to deal with them. I don’t like it, but they didn’t defeat Discord. He beat them in the end and the only reason he’s “under control” is because of Fluttershy. And then, the only reason the two were able to defeat him is because of the Elements. It had nothing to do with “them”. And Celestia never seems to be able to do anything without Luna, that as Nightmare Moon, can wipe the floor with her any day.
Yes, Celestia is 1000 years old minimum, but that’s a millennia we know nothing about. Unless they say that Celestia defeated some bad guy that never came back to kick her behind or actually does something in the present, I’m not impressed. There is nothing that says that Celestia is doing a particularly good job as a ruler and I wouldn’t be surprised if next episode the cartoon decided that Celestia doesn’t rule jack. Very unlikely, but you get my point. Compared to that, we know of Luna’s functions as Princess of the Night as mentioned in the cartoon, the comics and her own book… It looks pretty bad for Celestia and Cadance can at least say that she does a decent job protecting her subjects.
Celestia and Luna earned their titles when they were approached by Star Swirl who decided that they’d be good leaders because they encompass the three tribes in one, as did the newly founded Equestria. Equestria was already founded when they arrived. (Journal of the Two Sisters)
I said that Cadance was more active when defending the Empire against Sombra. For starters, she can cast a shield to protect it against Sombra by herself and that had nothing to do with the Crystal Heart. The only time Celestia did anything remotely similar was in her micro when she can’t hold some nondescript “EVIL” out of Canterlot without the teacher’s help. It was about helping others and counting on others, but the fact remains that, by herself, she never does anything except get defeated.
Eventually Sombra overpowered her, but she still managed to assist in his final defeat, saving Spike from Sombra. If Twilight hadn’t disobeyed Celestia’s orders in The Crystal Empire, everything would’ve been lost while Celestia and Luna remained in Canterlot… Doing god knows what while pretending the situation was under control. Only to get turned into a pair of stone statues later in the comics. Luna, I at least know that she’s important in a way and goes to the frontline to protect her subjects without being rendered useless.
During the Crystalling, Cadance mentions that in the library they’re likely to find something to help and is later shown helping Twilight look for it in the library. Then, she takes part in casting the spell with the others.To be fair, I think that The Crystalling is a step in the right direction for Celestia, but it’s not really impressive.
You can disagree with me all you want, but to me Celestia needs a lot more weight as a princess to even compare to Cadance (even more to Twilight or Luna). This is what annoyed me about this whole issue. It’s that stupid way the comics have of setting up a scenario that doesn’t even have any relation to the universe they’re portraying and then try to force their argument as valid, usually with an ending that “fixes” the problem. This issue should’ve been about Celestia feeling inadequate because she sucks every time she needs to actually do something, not Cadance feeling sorry for herself because she gets the same treatment the other two princesses that actually do anything good.
Say what you will about Celestia being useless as of today, but back when she and Luna were young, she was far from being a useless ruler. She and Luna have defeated Discord to save Equestria, they’ve built their castle together in the Everfree Forest just so they can have leaders from different nations (ponies, unicorns, and pegasi) come together and be together since the two represent the three nations, and more.
So when saying that Cadence can be compared to Celestia, I find that a hilarious joke, because at least Celestia can back herself up with history and she’s over a thousand years old.
You are correct that Cadence could hold off King Sombra, but in order to do that, she needs the Crystal Heart, and only Spike and Twilight did it. If Cadence came with Twilight and Spike (because she can clearly move around while having the shield up) she would receive some credit.
Cadence did become an alicorn but did she really earned it? Let’s take a look on how each princesses earn their alicornhood.
Celestia and Luna: Regardless of being born as an alicorn (though to be fair, I don’t think Hasbro is considering chapter books canon to the show thanks to Luna’s response to Flurry Heart’s alicorn birth), they earned their princess titles not by saving Equestria from Discord and other villains, but by uniting the three nations that represent Celestia and Luna. And they did it by introducing ‘friendship’.
Twilight Sparkle: She earned her wings because she studied and understanding the meaning of friendship follow by finishing the spell that Starswirl didn’t complete.
Cadence: She broke a love spell from an evil witch in a day..
Yes Cadence did take a large part on defending the Crystal Empire, but just like the wedding, she needed Twilight and Spike to do that.
How was Cadence more active than Celestia during the Crystalling? Last time I remember, Celestia and Luna were fending off the blizzard, Twilight was busy trying to figure out the spell that would put the Crystal Heart back together, and Cadence is being Cadence by doing nothing. Hell, I want to know why Starlight Glimmer is the one helping putting the Crystal Heart back together again and not Cadence? Clearly she’s not watching the baby.
Hum… I used “instrumental” meaning “indispensable”. Meaning that it couldn’t have been done without her. Did I mess up?
The problem I have with this whole thing is that Rice is trying to fit in Cadance’s head this “I’m unsure of myself” hat. The problem is that Cadance is anything but and the cartoon has gone to lengths to show that. They can’t pull this card with Cadance, specially when she can be compared to Celestia that is useless all the time. Everytime Celestia actually does something it’s barely enough and with Luna by her side. Cadance I know can at least hold off King Sombra and do her love magic. Not to mention that she actually earned being an alicorn princess. If there is one character in this universe that should have insecurities is Celestia.
Cadance did take a large part in defending the Crystal Empire against Sombra. She literally took the Crystal Heart before he could manage. Yes, Spike and Twilight helped, but Cadance was much more active and participated much more in the story than Celestia ever does, even counting The Crystalling.
Well here’s the problem for Cadence side. She was an instrument, not the hero. It took Twilight just to figure out that Chrysalis was in Cadence form.
Same thing with Crystal Empire and Equestria Games except it’s both Twilight and Spike that saved her kingdom instead of herself and Shining Armor.
And let’s not forget The Crystalling. Both her aunts were fending off the weather, Twilight is trying to solve the spell, and Cadence….being Cadence. On the bright side, her husband is actually showing some struggle as a father mentally and physically.
Cadence is the type of pony who would make Twilight beat Dark Souls for her and before triggering the final cutscene, she would take over and complete it and act like she accomplished something all by herself.
Edited
I think the speech bubble was attributed to the wrong filly. That panel has a filly reaching for the Cadance & Shining Armor box set.
Twilight: has the friendship nuke, earned alicorn status, frequently saves Equestria, has a dragon assistant/little brother and an owl for pet. “FRIENDSHIP PRINCESS”.
Celestia: Raises the sun to begin the day, was born an alicorn and sits there looking pretty, eventually getting her ass handed to her by the season’s villain. “SUN PRINCESS”
Cadance: has shown to understand practical uses for magic, actually DOES protect the Crystal Empire, was instrumental in the defeat of Chrysalis and Sombra and also eaarned the alicorn status. “PRETTY PRINCESS”
I get the feeling it should’ve been Celestia in this comic instead of Cadance.
Edited because: Missing things.
Ransom :)
BUY OUR TOYS VS. CAPCOM!